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Exclusive Interview with Chuck Girard/by Rex Stocklin

If you are fortunate enough to own a copy of the 1st

Ambrosia LP (self-titled) & Somewhere I've Never Travelled,

then you may have seen Chuck Girard's name before.

He is listed under the "thanks section". Rex "Papafrog"

Stocklin obtained this great interview from Mr. Girard!

....Enjoy!

1. Chuck, thank you for agreeing to talk to the Travellers discussion group about your "adventures" with Ambrosia. For starters give us a little background on who you are.

I started out in music in the high school years.  My influences were the Beach Boys, the Beatles, and the Flamingos.  I started a little group of called the Castells and we got a recording contract in the early '60s.  Our first record was called "Little Sad Eyes", and did it went to "bubbling- under" on the Billboard chart.  Our second recording was called "Sacred", and this record got into the top 20.  Our third record again went to "bubbling - under," and the fourth recording also went top 20.  This fourth song was called "So This Is Love".

This group stayed together for a few years, but eventually we stopped getting hits and disbanded.  Through this group association I met Gary Usher, who invited me to join a studio recording group in which he was involved.  I started out reluctantly, fearing the fact that I had a recording contract, and feeling uneasy about making these recordings, which were essentially non-contractual.  But after awhile my confidence grew, and I began to sing lead on many of the songs.. I stayed with Gary for about five years, and became the lead singer for the group the Hondells, making the first two albums with them as lead singer.

1a - Where have I heard Gary Usher's name before?

"Gary was one of Brian Wilson's best  "periodic" best friends."

1b - Periodic??

By periodic, I mean that friends came and went with Brian basically on the whim of Murray, Brian's dad.

1c - And you knew Brian from?

From mutual performances (sockhops and the like) of my  Castells and his Beach Boys. But our friendship grew through Gary.

Anyway, on with Gary, he got his start in songwriting with a worthy songwriting partner, one Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys. They wrote a number of songs together, but the most notable and successful was "In My Room". Gary was basically just emulating Brian in those days. He started off by just making records which were basically the sound of the Beach Boys but with songs that Gary and other songwriting partners would write. He produced a number of recordings in those days using the same personnel, but releasing be albums under many different names. Some of the names of the groups of this period were: The Timers, The Super Stocks, The Weird-ohs, The Devons, The Revells, and I'm sure many more than I can remember. He also worked with a number of established artists like Dick Dale and The Surfaris. Later on Gary produced a number of non-surf hot rod type groups, including Peanut Butter Conspiracy, Sagittarius, and The Millennium.

1d - As for the Hondells, you were the "First gear, it's alright, second gear, it's alright..." first line of the Hondell's most popular song, the cover of Brian's "Little Honda". Right?

That is correct. I was the lead vocalist on not only "Little Honda", but all of the songs on the first 2 albums which appeared on the Mercury label. I was not a part of any subsequent releases.

The personnel usually consisted of myself, Dick Burns, Wayne Edwards, Randy Thomas, and a number of part-timers, and we worked regularly. We used the hot session players of the day, many who became known as "The Wrecking Crew". Guys like Hal Blaine, Glen Campbell, Leon Russell, Ray Pohlman, Tommy Tedesco, etc. We must have recorded close to a hundred of these albums, all which came out under different names. None became prominent or were really great hits, with the exception of the Hondells "Little Honda".

1e - What did you hear about Tom Hanks' estimation of the Hondells recently?

Well, it was about the time that his movie called "That Thing You Do" came out. I was reading an interview by him in People magazine, a short "blurb in a box" kind of thing that they do, and one of the questions asked was what kind of music did he like to listen to when he was young. He said that he liked surf/hot rod type music, and specifically mentioned the Hondells. Obviously I was excited to read that, and am currently looking for a way to get a CD of some of the Hondells music to him along with a note sharing a little bit about my present life and music. I was frankly surprised to hear anyone admit that they enjoyed hot rod/surf music. I'm sure that many did, but would probably not want to admit it. This led me to conclude that Tom is probably a pretty honest and open guy, and I hope to make contact with him someday.

Anyway, about this time I began to hear about the hippie movement, and became quite curious about it.  I began to experiment  with drugs, and eventually became a hippie myself.  This lifestyle led me on a spiritual search, and eventually I became a Christian.

I put together a band called Love Song, and we became one of the better known bands of the Jesus movement. It was comprised of Bob Wall, Fred Field, Tommy Coomes, Phil Keaggy, John Mehler, Jay Truax & myself.

2 - Well this is supposed to be an Ambrosia-related talk so without further ado (sic), tell us how you first became acquainted with Ambrosia.

I was working with a guy named Freddie Piro who had started a label ostensibly to put out Christian albums, and specifically Love Song albums. And Freddie had somehow heard about this group called Ambrosia from the South Bay Area of Los Angeles.  He had gone to check them out and had decided to sign them for his label.  They were very progressive and really not very commercial when he first met them.  He spent a lot of time working with them to trim down their songs and make them more commercial. When I met them they had no studio experience at all, and I was looking for a rhythm section for a new album.  Freddie and the members of the group Love Song had built a studio so that we could make our records without having to go to outside studios.  Since Ambrosia was looking for studio experience, and I was looking for a rhythm section, it was decided they would play on my first solo album without receiving the large fees that session players usually command.  We spent many, many hours on the tracks to the album and which was just titled "Chuck Girard".  It was a great time of experimentation and creativity for both parties.  I had the luxury of not worrying about the clock ticking away the dollars, Ambrosia had the luxury of learning the studio in a friendly environment with minimal pressure.

3 - What was your role at the recording sessions? Anything else besides adding vocals?

When they recorded their first album it was time for the tables to turn. They invited me to be part of the background singing on their first & second efforts.  I was essentially a hired singer although we had the element of friendship working for us because of our previous association. I was essentially not a really great player, so my involvement was strictly in the vocal area.

4 - Are there any songs that you recall from the sessions? Do you recall any musical moments, jams, songs that didn't make it to recorded vinyl?

Not really.  I mean, when you are recording the songs you are into the technical part of it and very often, even though you're very involved at the time, you forget the songs right after the session.  But of course, later I heard several of them on the radio and that was fun, although I don't recall that any of the radio songs were ones in which I participated.

5 - Did you ever see Ambrosia perform in concert? What were any impressions vis-a-vis stage presence, audience rapport, improvisational technique and style?

I saw them only once, at the Greek Theater in Los Angeles.  My memory is a bit hazy, but as always they seem to be more about the music than anything else.  I don't remember them being flamboyant or showy, but the music as always was excellent.

6 - Chuck, you now add producer to your many hats?  If you produced the sessions, how would you've approached Ambrosia's talent differently?

I think that Freddie Piro did an excellent job with the group.  If anything he was probably a little too lenient with their syndrome for perfection, specifically that of David Pack.  I don't think anyone could have done a better job of editing the material and honing the group for success than Freddie did. But I do think that they were given a little too much carte blanche in the studio considering their lack of studio experience. They would constantly overdub part after part on top of the tracks until, in my humble opinion, they would wind up sapping the life out of some of the tracks (An example of this was David's assist with my vocal mixdown on my own "Tinagera" (from "Chuck Girard"), which after the initial vocal  tracks were laid down was re-arranged with a more contemporary but very busy background vocal arrangement which took days to record.

I was not a seasoned producer at the time that I worked with Ambrosia, but with my present day experience, looking back (with perfect hindsight), I believe I would produce them a little more sparsely than Freddie did, but perhaps that would not really be them.  The albums are fabulous even thirty years later, and who is to really say what would've made these great records any better.

7 - Do you have any contact with the guys today and if so what?

The only member I have any ongoing communication with is Burleigh.  He became a Christian partly as a result of my witness, and so I've kept in touch with him over the years based on a mutual connection.  Plus he's continued to drum on my records. Pack also moves in Christian circles, and has worked on many Christian albums.  I hear about him, but have not seen him nor his wife Gail in many years. I have not seen Joe or Chris since the days I worked with them.

8 - Do you have any sort of miscellaneous funny or unusual Ambrosia anecdotes you would like to share with us?

Sorry, but nothing meaty for your list. My recollections are pretty minimal from that era.

9 - What qualities about the band made you want to use them on your own projects?

Really, it was just their availability.  I knew they were all excellent musicians, so that was not at issue.  But as I have said in a previous answer, they were sort of "hanging around" this studio, we became friends, and the two elements came together conveniently for my first solo album.  I have always liked Burleigh's drumming, and David is an excellent guitarist. Christopher North is one of the most original keyboard players I've ever worked with, and contributed some wonderful ideas to my album.  I can't leave out Joe, who is a wonderfully lyrical bass player.

10 - Would you do something with Ambrosia again?

I really can't foresee a situation where that could ever happen.  I have my own ministry, and my music has a specific message.  Musically and philosophically, we are in two different worlds, and I really can't think of a situation that would bring us together again.  Perhaps one day they will all become Christians and they will give me a call to participate in their first Christian album.  That's a project I wouldn't miss.

11 - Why do you suppose the group didn't meet their commercial potential (outside of the handful of blue-eyed soul hits)?

I think they did.  They weren't recording the kind of little pop ditties that stay at No. 1 for the rest of your life.  I think I would be somewhat correct in observing that adult contemporary rock was not really a developed category for airplay at this time, so for them to get airplay on the kind of songs they released as singles was to me quite successful. They were actually a pretty progressive group for the day and had a handful of hit singles.

12 - If you had to describe Ambrosia's style to say... a Tuvan throat-singer, what terms would you use? And are there any bands who come close to their sound in your estimation?

I'm not really very good at categorizing.  I guess I would call them Progressive Rock, with some classical overtones.  I've described their music as very sophisticated, yet very enjoyable.  Comparable bands? Perhaps "Yes", "Emerson, Lake and Palmer"? But then again not really

13 - This was asked of another interviewee, so I shall steal the question and pose it to you. What are your feelings regarding Freddie Piro?

This is very delicate.  Let me just say that Freddie is a person who I would not mind being friends with, but would never want to be again in a business relationship with him. The parting of our business relationship was painful in many ways perhaps on both sides, and I have never felt that we have come to a point of absolute closure.  I feel that he is responsible for the fact that much of my old music will never be re-released on CD, and that many things in that regard continue to be mishandled.

14 - I see that The Crusaders' Wilton Felder worked on your first solo LP. Were you aware that The Crusaders' Joe Sample worked on Ambrosia's 3rd LP "Life Beyond L.A."? Ambrosia used jazz as well as a number of different musical genres (incl. classical & country) to carve its own sound with. Do you think there is any style they can't do?

Tuvan Throat-singing?

15 - I am aware that both Ambrosia & you have a vocal "wall of sound" (to steal from Phil Spector) sound. Did you influence Ambrosia thusly? Or they you? Or were the you two cut from the same vocal cloth?

David said that I was an influence, but I have never really understood why they would feel that way.  They had heard the vocal harmonies on my own albums, and I believe there was a certain reverence on their part  for my approach.  But I always felt that they far outdid me.  My harmonies were mostly three-part block vocal pads.  They were doing much more advanced counterpoint, and had much more varied  vocal textures.

16 - Why didn't David Pack participate on your magnificent LP, "The Stand"? The rest of the guys (incl. Royce) were there.

I do not remember why David did not play on this album.  I was in pretty much of personal fog in those days and much of that period is not very clear to me in my memory .

17 - Any thoughts on "Tin Drum"?

This is a great band.  Mary's vocals put me in mind of Jane Siberry, my all-time favorite female vocalist.  The tunes and production are great, and in my opinion this is an excellent album.

18 - What's your favorite Ambrosia song and why? What song of yours that Ambrosia worked on is your favorite and why?

This is a category I rather avoid in interviews.  Favorite is a shallow word when it comes to creative endeavor.  It demands that we single one thing out as better than another, or even worse, as best of all.  There are many reasons and levels on which I appreciate art.  It is difficult if not impossible for me to single out a favorite in any category.

19- How do you think artists such as yourselves can best use the web to increase awareness of your work? What have you done? What can Ambrosia do?

The web is still in it's infancy.  Although its reach is global, there are millions upon millions of web sites available.  The audience for any single web site is probably fairly limited at this time.  I think just establishing a presence is enough for now.  Interested parties can find you if they want to badly enough.  Eventually, as more and more people get connected, the commercial viability will rise, and I'm sure one day we will even be able to do the business of independent record labels on the net. Right now I see the attraction to  be information.  I personally love to go to say a Beach Boys site and glean esoteric information that would not commonly be available through ordinary channels.  I love to stay in touch with current news regarding artists whose work I admire, and I see that to be the present strength of the net.  I myself do purchase items from the web, and often find prices to be more than competitive. However, I don't sell a lot of product from my own web site at this time, but perhaps in the future we may get TO a point were we may do the majority of sales from our web site.  For now, establish a presence, update the web site from time to time to keep it interesting, and time'll have to do the rest.

20- You've worked with some pretty amazing guitarists, Phil Keaggy, Tim Pierce, Jon Linn. How would you stack David Pack's talent or style up against them or any of the other axe greats?

I have over the years had the pleasure and privilege of working with some of the finest guitarists in the world.  Each of them that could be called great, have something unique that they do that is probably unlike what anyone else can do.  David's talent stacks right up there with the best of them and.  Comparing again is a bit like picking a favorite.  Phil Keaggy is a truly amazing guitarist on every level.  Tim Pierce is one of the most organic and tasteful guitarists I've ever worked with.  I really do believe the David is right up there with the true greats, and the only reason he is not more recognized, is because Ambrosia is in a sense really more of a cult group.  They are not quite mainstream, but at the same time they are not really alternative.  The guitarists who get the most attention seemed to be the ones who are more commercially successful.

21 - How can you characterize your relationship, if any, with Alan Parsons? What was it like working for him?

I met Alan when he engineered the first Ambrosia album. The recordings were done at Mama Jo's studio and the album took a long time to record. I believe that Alan was here for about a year working on the project. Alan was basically a very family oriented guy, not at all like the mystical image he promotes on his album covers and liner notes. I did not really have a relationship with Alan outside of the studio, but enjoyed his company when we worked together in the studio. I was honored by the fact that he really liked one of the songs I was working on at the time for my own solo album, "Callin' You". He made the comment that this song could be a hit on secular radio, and voiced interest in wanting to remix it sometime if time allowed. Unfortunately time did not allow, and an Alan Parsons mix of this song does not exist .

Well, Chuck, this was my first interview, how did I do?

I have really enjoyed doing this interview, and found your questions to be very stimulating and thoughtful, not the usual "what is your favorite color" type questions. Good job, Rex.

for any personal correspondance with Chuck Girard, email him at [email protected].

Visit Chuck Girard's Web Site!

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